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Post by dazzab73 on Aug 24, 2007 16:04:14 GMT -5
Hey guys,
I got Bioshock for the XBox 360 today. All I can say is WOW. I have only managed to play a couple of hours but already I am completely hooked. I have to say this is the best FPS since half-life 2. It is easily the best game I have played this year so far.
In fact, Halo 3 is going to have to be something special to better Bioshock. Mind you, maybe Halo 3 is going to be more about the multiplayer experience rather than single player.
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Post by matthew on Aug 24, 2007 16:18:35 GMT -5
I think I might have seen an advert for that game on TV recently. ;D The last game I really liked playing was Final Fantasy VII on the Playstation. I used to play a lot of Games when I was younger on my Spectrum and Amiga, lol.
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Post by dazzab73 on Aug 24, 2007 16:40:23 GMT -5
A nostalgic tear rolled down my cheek when you mentioned the Speccy and the miggy. The first computer I owned was the 16k rubber-keyed ZX Spectrum. I was 9 years old at the time. I taught myself to program using the spectrum - mainly using the source code they used to print in magazines like Sinclair User and Your Sinclair.
From there I progressed to STOS in the Atari ST and then on to AMOS on the Amiga. I remember they released AMOS Pro which came on something like 6 floppies and so I bought an Amiga 1200 with the build-in hard drive just so I could use AMOS Pro in a more flexible way!!!
Ahhhhhh, them were the days!!!
The Final Fantasy series may have grown since FF VII but there is still some magic (no pun intended!!!) about that one. Maybe it is because it was the first one I played and it was the first one in 3D.
Also I bought Blue Dragon for the Xbox 360 today and that game is designed by the guy who did a lot of work on the Final Fantasy games.
Despite being 33, I am still a big game player - even though my wife moans about the number of games I buy and never get around to finishing!!
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Post by matthew on Aug 24, 2007 16:47:19 GMT -5
I still use AMOS as I've got an Amiga Emulator on my Laptop. If you haven't already you should check out this Site. They've scanned about 30,000 Pages from various Amiga Magazines and put them online. All the AMOS Tutorials from CU Amiga and Amiga Format can be downloaded from there. I don't really play that many games in my spare time nowadays as I prefer programming, lol.
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Post by dazzab73 on Aug 24, 2007 17:07:47 GMT -5
Cool link. I think I will spend a few hours looking around the site tomorrow. Seems like there is quite a lot to sink your teeth into on the site.
My day job is as an analyst/programmer so it is hard to find the motivation to program in my spare time. Also too much programming in my spare time would serious cut into my destiny to watch every single football match broadcast on Sky Sports!!! LOL.
I have been promising myself to start learning 3d games programming for what seems like the last 3 or 4 years!! I guess I just don't have enough spare time to put in the dedication needed to learn properly. I have a few engines and 3d language screaming at me to use them. LOL. One day.......!!!
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Post by matthew on Aug 24, 2007 17:18:08 GMT -5
I've never had Sky Sports, so I have to make do with highlights on Match of the Day, lol. As for 3D Graphics you should check out Basic4GL, it's a version of Basic with support for OpenGL Graphics. I've been using it for over a Year now. I also use thinBASIC, which also has support for OpenGL Graphics.
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Post by dazzab73 on Aug 24, 2007 17:43:56 GMT -5
I came across thinBasic a few months ago and I really like it. I find it very useful to putting together simple scripts to automate certain tasks. In fact, if it wasn't freeware, I would buy a license for it. I noticed there was an OpenGL library for it but, surprise surprise, I haven't had a chance to look into it. I will also take a look at Basic4GL.
I think I may settle on using DarkBasic Pro. From what I have read it there are still quite a few bugs - which is a bit dodgy considering it has been out for quite a while now. Also, I am not too keen on the way they use spaces in a lot of the command set but when you have a look at the number of various expansion packs available such as Dark AI and Dark Physics, it may be the option which gives me the most flexibility; it's my starter for 10 so to speak.
Also there is source code available to load levels created in FPS Creator straight into DB Pro. That means I have the possibility of knocking up a quick level which I can use during the learning process.
If I enjoy 3d programming and manage to learn a lot of the basics using DBPro, I can move on to something else.
Did you teach yourself 3d graphics programming? Did you buy any books? If so, can you recommend any? I guess initially I would just like a book which explains the basics rather than bog you down in complex source code or tie you into a particular engine/language.
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Post by matthew on Aug 24, 2007 17:56:27 GMT -5
If you want to learn 3D OpenGL Programming you should check out the Tutorials at NeHe Productions. I've managed to convert about 14 of the C++ NeHe Tutorials into thinBASIC. You can find them here on the thinBASIC Forum. You should also download yourself a copy of the OpenGL RedBook. The Book and the NeHe Lessons taught me pretty much everything I know.
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Post by dazzab73 on Aug 25, 2007 12:21:11 GMT -5
Thanks for the links Matthew. I have made a start by downloading Basic4GL and the OpenGL redbook. I haven't had a chance to install it/read the pdf yet - but at least downloading is a start!! For my sins I stayed up playing Bioshock until 2:30am!! My wife woke me up at 7:00am to go do the weekly shop!!! I plan to have an earlier night tonight so maybe tomorrow I can finally have a good programming session.
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Post by matthew on Aug 25, 2007 13:07:10 GMT -5
Bioshock must be a good game, lol.
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Post by u9 on Aug 25, 2007 13:59:02 GMT -5
... or a strict wife ... naaa... it's good that she makes sure your days don't turn into nights. This is what my mom used to do, unfortunately i don't live at home anymore so that is why i always post so late Btw, I am also trying to learn 3D game programming. My intention is just to learn a more "high-level" approach, and just find some kind of 3D engine to take care of all the low-level stuff. Basically (i think) any engine can load meshes, move them around and i'm happy. Stuff that i'm trying to learn is like where to place the cameras and how to move them around, integrate some physics, etc.
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Post by dazzab73 on Aug 25, 2007 14:41:36 GMT -5
Okay I promise not to make any more Bioshock reference - otherwise I will end up sounding like an Xbox360 fanboy!! LOL. u9 - have you settled on an engine yet? I am thinking your way too. I also need a language which is very beginner friendly, hiding away a lot of the more lower level API calls. So, that initially rules out things like Ogre, Torque and PowerRender. I may take a look at XNA (especially as it is used from within C#, which I love). Truevision is supposed to be pretty good and it seems you can use it with a variety of languages. Basic4GL, which Matthew mentions above, seems nice and beginer friendly. So, I may use that to have a good look at OpenGL. In terms of DirectX-based languages, I have been using Blitz3d for a long time but only the 2d capabilities. Unfortunately, the 3d engine is a bit old now (based on DirectX 7). I have had a look at the 3d game studio (A7) engine. The problem I have with that is that it seems you really need the commercial or pro version and those are starting to get a bit expensive. After all, I am only going to learn 3d as a hobby/have a bit of fun so I don't want to have to invest a lot of money. The other DirectX option is DarkBasic Pro. I like the fact you have the Dark AI and Dark Physics expansion packs so it will allow me to easily get to grips with most of the concepts associated with 3d. The only problem is cost of getting all these expansion packs does end up making it an expensive
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Post by matthew on Aug 25, 2007 14:58:22 GMT -5
I've been messing about with C# Express Edition for about a Year now. I really wanted to install XNA but my Graphivs Card wasn't good enough. For 3D Graphics in C# I use Tao and SDL.net. You should also take a look at Irrlicht it's a 3D Engine and you can use it in thinBASIC. Don't forgot that you can also use TrueVision3D in Brutus2D.
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Post by dazzab73 on Aug 25, 2007 16:24:11 GMT -5
It is not normally I say nice things about Microsoft, but I was very impressed when they released the Express editions of C#, VB.NET and C++ for free. I noticed on the Microsoft website that the 2008 beta of the .NET suite is available for download. I wonder if they will release express versions of 2008.
Initially XNA was appealing because you could run your games on a PC and a Xbox360. You can also swap games with other Xbox360 users. But then I found out Microsoft are charging £50 a year for this and you have to swap at a source code level rather than a "compiled exe" level.
I am pretty sure I read recently XNA v2 is due out towards the end of the year/earlier next year and I know there are a few books coming out on the subject so I will keep XNA on my list.
I guess there are so many 3d engines around which range from free up to "that's way too expensive"!!! I should just narrow down my list of options and make my final decision. Problem is I keep finding new engines which are worth a try and I am back to square one!! LOL.
I have had a play about with SDL. I don't know if you have heard of the GP2X open source handheld games console, but that uses SDL as it game SDK. The console is Linux based but there are toolchains using CodeBlocks and DevC++ as the IDE to develop the executables (called .gpe on GP2x) and you can either copy these to an SD card or, if you connect via USB, you can telnet the .gpe from windows to the console itself.
What will be interesting is to see where things go in the next year or two now that Vista and DirectX 10 is around. At the moment I don't want to upgrade from XP to Vista and have to buy a DirectX 10 specific graphics card.
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Post by u9 on Aug 25, 2007 16:36:50 GMT -5
I haven't really decided, but i do have some criteria. Most important for me is cross-platform, this should narrow my search down quite a bit I'm also starting a computer graphics course next semester where we will be going into quite some detail in 3D graphics so i guess i will learn the low-level opengl api anyways. I'm sure it will come in handy though. Other then that i will probably use c++ because of portability and speed. I already have an excellent grasp on c++ so there shouldn't be too much problems However it really does sound nice that you can make games for windows and the xbox at the same time... who knows who knows... i guess i should never say never. The 50 bucks for the xbox developer license shouldn't be too bad if one makes a sell-able game. There are really many users
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